Move Aside, Chatbots: AI Humanoids Are Here

This week, WIRED learned that OpenAI is ramping up its efforts in robotics—specifically, by hiring researchers who work on AI systems for humanoid robots. Humanoids, robots built to resemble us and perform daily tasks, were famous for their clumsiness just a few years ago. Senior writer Will Knight tells us about how that’s rapidly changing on today’s episode cohosted by Michael Calore and senior correspondent Kylie Robison.
Mentioned in this episode:
OpenAI Ramps Up Robotics Work in Race Toward AGI by Will Knight
Humanoid Robots Are Coming of Age by Will Knight
2025 Is the Year of the Humanoid Robot Factory Worker by Russell Brandom
You can follow Michael Calore on Bluesky at @snackfight, Will Knight on Bluesky at @willknight, and Kylie Robison on Bluesky at @kylierobison.com. Write to us at uncannyvalley@wired.com.
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Transcript
Note: This is an automated transcript, which may contain errors.
Michael Calore: Hey, Kylie. How are you doing?
Kylie Robison: Good. How are you?
Michael Calore: Not bad. Good to see you here in the chair-
Kylie Robison: I know.
Michael Calore: … that is normally occupied by Lauren Goode.
Kylie Robison: My Lord and Savior Lauren Goode, I’m so happy to fill in for her, but I miss her dearly.
Michael Calore: We all do. Also on the show this week, we have Will Knight, our AI expert at WIRED. Welcome back to the show, Will. How are you doing?
Will Knight: Hello. Good to be here. I’m doing well, thanks.
Michael Calore: Given the topic of today’s episode, I want to ask you both. Do you have a favorite robot movie?
Kylie Robison: Yeah. Mine is The Iron Giant. I was just looking up when that came out because I swear I watched it on VHS as a kid. Yeah, I loved that movie. It’s got a very sad ending. The robot is no longer. Oh.
Michael Calore: I guess we can probably spoil it, it’s been decades.
Kylie Robison: Yeah, it came out in 1999. I think it’ll be okay.
Michael Calore: Will, what is your favorite robot movie?
Will Knight: Okay. I’m going to recommend Blade Runner, which is obviously a very famous movie and very beautiful. When I first saw it, I just thought it was just really cool. Then I later read the book and realized that it’s ambiguous about whether some of the characters are robots or humans. I found it mind-blowing, this idea of blurring what it means to be human and asking whether you can build something that’s human. Which I think we’re a long way from, but it’s an interesting idea.
Michael Calore: That’s great. I’m going to go with RoboCop.
Kylie Robison: Nice.
Michael Calore: Which is the absolute opposite of The Iron Giant. But it’s a great movie and it’s timeless. It’s a wonderful film. It’s Paul Verhoeven going extremely hard in the ’80s mode. And it’s about the privatization of the police force and the corporatization of America’s public services, it’s very prescient.
Kylie Robison: Very classic Michael pick.
Michael Calore: Thanks. This is WIRED’s Uncanny Valley, a show about the people, power, and influence of Silicon Valley. Today we’re talking about how the field of robotics is shaping up to be the next frontier in the race towards artificial general intelligence, or AGI. Earlier this week, we learned that OpenAI is ramping up its efforts in robotics, specifically by hiring researchers who work on AI systems for humanoid robots. Humanoids, robots that were built to resemble us and perform daily tasks, were famous for their clumsiness just a few years ago. But as our colleague Will writes about, advancements in machine learning and hardware have renewed interest in humanoid technology, particularly within the AI industry. We’ll dive into what companies like OpenAI are hoping to gain by investing in robots and what their decision means for how experts are thinking about what is really needed to achieve AGI, and what it might mean for us, the real humans, if that happens. I’m Michael Calore, director of consumer technology and culture.
Kylie Robison: I’m Kylie Robison, senior correspondent covering the business of AI.
Will Knight: And I’m Will Knight, senior writer at WIRED.
Michael Calore: Will, this is an obvious question, but we have to start here. What exactly are we talking about when we talk about humanoid robots? How are they different from other robots?
Will Knight: Yeah, I think it is a good question really. The obvious answer is that they’re shaped like a human, so they have legs, arms, head like we do. But the bigger point really is, and the reason why the industry’s so interested in this, is because they are designed to operate in the world that we live in which is designed for humans. Going upstairs, sitting inside vehicles, anything a human could do that those machines could do. When you’re talking about trying to build something that has human-like intelligence, if that’s how you define AI, then a big element of that is being able to do things in the real world. ChatGPT is getting very, very good at advanced math, but it can’t make you a cup of coffee. It couldn’t come into your home and make a cup. Or maybe it can, given what they’re working on.
Michael Calore: Right.
Will Knight: But that’s the idea.
Michael Calore: As you reported on, Will, and others at WIRED have talked about, humanoid robots do not have the most stellar reputation. They’re seen as gimmicky. We’ve all seen videos of the Boston Dynamics robot that dances. That video on YouTube has over 40 million views. As far as we know, based on what the company’s put out there, that’s about all they’re good at. At their worst, they’re seen as unreliable at performing desired tasks. They fall over, they bump into each other. How is that perception changing right now?
Will Knight: Yeah. I remember going to the DARPA Robotics Challenge, back in I think it’s 2012 when it first happened. This was a really interesting idea. After the Fukushima nuclear accident, they couldn’t bring robots in to work in this really radioactive environment, so the idea was can we develop robots that could go into that human environment. But back then, these humanoids, they moved unbelievably slowly. They just kept falling over, often in really comedic ways. In the years since that, actually a lot of what’s happened is really the hardware has gotten better and better. And some key things, like motors. In order to move like a human, we think of robots as being more capable than us, but you need to be able to move very, very quickly and very explosively in order to do things like balance. That’s what Boston Dynamics pioneered. That kind of hardware has gotten a lot more available, which is why you’re starting to see more humanoids come on the market.
Michael Calore: Now we know that OpenAI is very interested in humanoid robots. What did you recently learn from your reporting about the company?
Will Knight: I’ve been following a lot of different labs that are working on robots. Humanoids is a really big thing because it allows you to explore this human physical element of intelligence. I discovered firstly that they were hiring people to work on humanoids. Then also, if you look at the job listings they have and other signals, you can see this picture where they’re clearly ramping up their robotics work. Which I think makes perfect sense, given that a lot of other labs are doing that. A lot of other companies working on AI seem to be looking towards this physical side of intelligence now.
Kylie Robison: Yeah. When I read the piece, my first thought was Yann LeCun’s position where we’re not going to reach AGI or AI that’s smarter than all of us without that physical intelligence bit, without it learning in the real world, like any other carbon-based life form. It’s interesting that OpenAI is picking up their robotics work once again, after they shuttered in back in 2021. You product that they were doing pretty solid work on robotics, doing things like developing an algorithm capable of solving a Rubik’s cube using a human-like hand. Now it seems like OpenAI is not just returning to robotics, but bringing that AI focus to it, exactly what LeCun wanted. Back in February, OpenAI parted ways with Figure AI, a startup focused on creating humanoid robots. How do you think internal OpenAI initiatives can be competitive in comparison to companies that have been consistently developing humanoid robots? The whole time I’m thinking about the robot on meat hooks. I would be remiss if I did not mention the robot on meat hooks.
Will Knight: What’s the robot on meat hooks?
Kylie Robison: The humanoid robot on meat hooks? I’m so shocked that you haven’t seen this. Have you seen this, Michael?
Michael Calore: No.
Kylie Robison: Oh, my God. Do I just have the most cursed algorithm on planet Earth? I really hope that the listeners know what I’m talking about, and/or should go search it up because it’s the most horrifying thing. It almost feels like a gimmick. Will, do you know what this is? Did you just look it up?
Will Knight: They’ll often have a humanoid on a chain so it doesn’t fall over and it goes berserk.
Kylie Robison: Yeah, yeah. And it loses it.
Will Knight: Is that the one?
Kylie Robison: Yes.
Will Knight: Okay, yeah.
Kylie Robison: And then it breaks because there was some problem in the algorithm. Yeah, it goes berserk. It’s horrifying, but probably a good marketing stunt. But I imagine OpenAI’s not going to have humanoids on meat hooks.
Will Knight: If they’re developing the hardware, they probably will have them on something.
Kylie Robison: Incredible.
Will Knight: So they don’t break themselves if they fall over. They are going to be competing with a lot of companies that are already putting videos of robots out there and stuff. The advantages that they have is in the algorithms already. Large language models, one of the remarkable things about them, is they have a surprising amount of understanding of the physical world. But to get to the next step, whether they’re developing hardware or just doing the algorithms, they’re going to have to work on these systems that are better able to really understand how to operate in the real world. So how to move limbs and do things like manipulation, which is one of the really big unsolved challenges.
Michael Calore: Yeah. Some of the big competitors, we should talk about. Kylie, you just mentioned Figure. There’s also Agility Robotics, Apptronik, some household names. Who are the ones that we should think about?
Will Knight: Yeah, there are a slew of companies doing humanoids now. You’ll see these videos in your social media. Agility is one of the better known ones, Apptronik. Boston Dynamics of course has pioneered this. Figure AI is very prominent with some of its demonstrations or videos. Of course, Tesla. Be remiss not to mention that. I think Tesla is going to be, not just because of Elon, but because they are actually very steeped in developing AI for the physical world through their cars, and also through the manufacturing that they do, clearly Elon seems to be really focused on that. Now I think they will be a really prominent competitor. We should also mention Unitree, which is this Chinese company which is now the biggest manufacturer of humanoid robots. I think they just filed for their IPO. I got to see a bunch of their robots. They’re really low cost. They’re not super sophisticated I think, but they’re very low cost and very able to do things like dancing. I went to a conference in China where they had them doing boxing matches, punching each other and doing kung-fu, which was quite impressive. But yeah, there is a growing number of companies. I think going is also doing some stuff with Apptronik, one of the US firms.
Michael Calore: It feels like the end game for the AI companies is to create humanoid robots that can function in place of a human in factory environments, in shipping and receiving, and around the home doing helpful tasks. The robotics companies have the same goals as well. They want to be able to sell a robot that can do this. But specifically with OpenAI, what are their primary motivations here outside of just the race for AGI?
Will Knight: Well, I think one of the big things to mention is GPT-5, the latest model which was meant to be a huge leap forward, kind of flopped. I think they, like others, are looking for the next big thing, the next direction in AI. Developing a better understanding of the physical world would mean building world models, so-called world models, is going to be a very important thing for AI. I think that this could be very important for consumer hardware, like smart glasses or whatever hardware they’re working on, because robots, by navigating the physical world, especially if they have digits like us, will interact with the same world that we do. You do have the potential to build models that are going to have a much better of the understanding of the world you’re walking through. I think there could be a bunch of commercial applications there as well.
Kylie Robison: Yeah. You previously brought up Elon Musk. Something I’d heard in my reporting and I’d reported a portion of this in my newsletter is during a recent all-hands with X and xAI people, which are the companies he also owns, he said that Tesla and the humanoid robot from there, he said that’s their biggest advantage at xAI is having those robotics in the background. Which is not something OpenAI has, they’re building this from the ground up which is notoriously hard. But the hype is very real, just like with the AGI hype. Now we’ve moved on to some sort of humanoid robot hype. Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI, recently told Bloomberg that people would soon be walking down the street and see seven robots walk past you doing this, or whatever. It’s going to feel very sci-fi. He said that moment isn’t very far away. You reported in your piece that it’s a $5 billion industry right now and could be worth five-trillion by 2050. What do you think of this hype? Is it warranted?
Will Knight: Yeah, I think it is really hyped. I think one of the problematic things with robots, you can compare to ChatGPT and large language models, is you can do these demo videos that are really stunning and people naturally think,